| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| onesasquatch |
Posted - 27/06/2002 : 16:10:30
I'm an amateur at this. I've developed lots of rolls of negs but I'm always facing the problem with water marks on my negs. After fixing and washing the negs, I normally use a squeegee to take most of the water off but there's always a little water drops on the negs. It's never completely clean of them. Later when the negs dry, the residue in the water can be seen on the negs. How do you guys avoid this?I've stopped developing my own negs because of this. I've been using XP2 and would like to start using and developing conventional B&W film again. Thanks |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| engbobs |
Posted - 17/05/2008 : 02:10:17
I think I have given some thoughts on water quality some time back. I live in the country and rely on a private well on my property. My home is on a mountain which I believe was a sand bar eons ago because at well depths there is considerable sand. Also there is high limestone levels and iron levels in the ground hence the water has high levels of these minerals. Therefor I have a smal water treating system which starts with a fine filter on the inlet followed by and iron removal system and a water softener. This provides general use water. Because of some residual salt from the softener system I added another filter, carbon filter and osmosis filter for the drinking water. This is what I use for darkroom chemical mixing and have started to use it for a final dunk of film prior to drying. I have not used a squegge(sp?) for many years because of potential for scratches. I have found that wetting agents leave a scum at times which is probably an interaction of the agent with the softened water. Hope this is of some help. |
| mitch fusco |
Posted - 16/05/2008 : 21:05:33
Hi Ive just been reading your posts about water marks Im new to the sit. A frend of mine has just introduced me to rolli rwa sc wetting agent it is remarkable it is the first time I have ever seen newly processed film with no water marks wow! |
| rbarker |
Posted - 14/02/2005 : 08:27:36
Based on your description of your water, I'm not sure that I'd go the kitchen-faucent filter route. Although considerably less expensive than heavier-duty under-sink units, the faucet filters tend to clog quickly if there's too much junk in the water. With a lot of dissolved minerals in the water, you may need a two-stage filter system - one for the minerals, and another for particulate matter. I'd suggest seeing what is available with large, easily-changed filter cartridges at your local building supply, rather than looking at photo supplies. Or, just set up a still and make your own distilled water.  |
| Bri |
Posted - 14/02/2005 : 02:08:46
Right, Had it up to my eyeballs tonight with the water here. I think I'll get a filter..are there any to avoid does anyone know? And any recomendations. I live in Wigan, UK.
The water problems seem two fold here.
Lots of dissolved salts and irons. OK for removing fix in the wash but..well..horrible things happen when this waters left. Dishes get like a 'grey dust' on them if ..ahem..'left to soak' for a few days. The toilet pan goes red after a while..(presumably the water tank is heavily corroded) and I once left a neg in it for two days and the emulsion completely got stripped off (I used to leave bits of neg lying around in the other place before moving here and never saw that happen).
The second is particles in the water. I know for sure now as I had just cleaned a little white 'bit' from the neg under running water only to find another 'bit' higher up the neg (ie this came from the fresh water). Happened a few times. Ho hum!
Heres an odd one though deved 4 sheets last night (I'm catching up on 2 yrs worth of shots) and 3 were perfecto in the morning. One had one ugly big blemish on its lower most corner. Odd for such a discrepancy.
I've got two HEPA air filters in the bathroom and crappy orrid water. A bit late to find out but...gitta get that filter now! |
| rbarker |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 02:08:46
I'm not really an Ilford rep, but I see little advantage to the wash-dry-wash again cycle you're describing, Bri. Regular (drinkable) water with the right amount of wetting agent after the regular wash should be sufficient. If there's too much crud in the water, it's best not to let it dry on the film anyway, as it's difficult to remove the deposits later, after they've dried. If there's sediment in the tap water, consider using a drinking water filter (either the tap-attached or pitcher type) to remove the sediment and most of the hard chemicals for the wetting agent solution. A cup or two of filtered water in a small 5x7 tray is all that's needed for the final dip with the wetting agent.
Personally, I take the extra step of using a strip of chamois leather, soaked in the wetting agent solution and squeezed dry, as a squeegee after the wetting agent dip. I fold it over, around the film, pull it tight, and then run it down the length of the film once the film is hanging.
As to your question about wet/dry cycles, the physical limit far exceeds anything practical. |
| Bri |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 18:12:28
Its quite difficult to get hold of distilled water these days due to the energy consumed in the processand the availability of suitable low cost substitutes such as deionised/purified water.
However even with purified water I have still had very bad drying marks form one night when I had to use just purified water as final wash. Yep would you, believe it I bought fresh chem s from Jessops, deved the film opened my 'new' wetting agent to find it had already been opened and was *very* contaminated. I've rewashed the film since etc but the original drying marks still persist. And I did get fresh chems cos sit was a one off shoot that can never be re shot. I do however think the emulsion (HIE) was part of the problem. Tetchy thing that it is.
Anyway hoping for Ilford input on this one...how many times can a film be passed through a wet / dry cycle? I'm developing rolls and sheets one or two at a time. Using purified water as final wash each time is relatively expensive. Plus steaming up the bathroom for each too. Would it be damaging to process as normal, use std water with wetting agent as final wash. Dry the film but don't file it. Wait till you get more film in the same state (all deved and washed and dried) to mix up a larger quantity of purified water and wetting agent to re wet and give THE final wash. |
| jcurtis |
Posted - 19/12/2002 : 16:17:57
Use distilled water with a wetting agent. I use about 1/4 of the amount the manufacturer suggests. Then I squeege my negatives by running the film between my fingers. |
| mdjohnsonphoto |
Posted - 19/12/2002 : 15:53:45
It seems this is morphing into a discourse on water so I would add that not all distilled water is equal. Standards where they exist vary and I have seen particulates in some packaged so called distilled water. I have alternatively gone to using the ceramic filtration available in tap units such as Instapure, Waterpic, PUR and Brita which truly scrub the water. I draw off several gallons at a time keeping the water at same ambiant temp. as chemistry for easy mixing. If you are using a lot of water the cost should balance (filter vs. bottled) with the additional benefit of clean drinking water.8-) |
| DMAXPlus |
Posted - 18/12/2002 : 00:11:13
Reference Water Spots: I always used distilled water
for mixing ALL chemistry for negative development, including wetting agent. After processing, wash fim normally, with a hypo-reducing agent, was or rinse a few moments in fresh distilled water, and then soak fim for at least one minute in wetting agent solution. Hang to dry - NEVER use fingers, chamois, squeegee etc. - too much danger of scratching the soft emulsion. Also, no hair-driers as they can easily pick up ambient dust particles and imbed them in your film. |
| musketeer |
Posted - 07/09/2002 : 23:18:53
just another simple splution to hard water. head on over to the local wall-mart, home depot lowes. or whatever homesupply you have near you. for about $20-$50 dolars you can get a water purifier that goes on your faucet. change the filter every 3 months and no more particles in the emulsion. |
| glennfromwy |
Posted - 14/08/2002 : 01:43:53
Sounds like what is known as Newton's Rings. Anti Newton's Ring glass can be purchased for your negative carrier and should solve the problem. |
| mdjohnsonphoto |
Posted - 14/08/2002 : 01:42:41
You might also see if it is possible to get a glass carrier with anti-newton glass to minimize the rings. Some slide mounts such as by GEPE have this glass to avoid the phenomenon.8-) |
| onesasquatch |
Posted - 13/08/2002 : 22:58:39
Thanks for the advice David,I'll try it next time. I think I found out what was causing the rings on my prints. I have a Durst enlardger with a glass plate in the negative carrier. This plate must be causing the rings as it touches the shiny side of the negative. I wasnt sure what it was until I printed two of the same prints from the same negative without moving the negative. The rings were slightly different in placement on the two prints. All this time I've been kicking myself as to what I've been doing wrong with my film. We dont have hard water here but just the same I will soak my film in distilled water - cant hurt. Bijan |
| DavidC |
Posted - 08/08/2002 : 18:42:13
I use distilled water in two ways. After washing thoroughly, I soak the film in distilled water for a minute or two. The reason for this is that hard water has dissolved minerals in solution. During the washing phase, some of those minerals will make their way into the film emulsion. While soaking in the distilled water, most of these minerals will be pulled back out of the emulsion into the distilled water until equilibrium is achieved. At this point there is very little of the dissolved minerals left in the film emulsion. This soaking step is important because otherwise some of those minerals will come out of the emulsion during the drying process and will be deposited on the surface of the film.Now I take the film from the reel and attach clips to the ends. Just before hanging the film to dry, I pour fresh distilled water down both sides of the film strip to remove those last few stubborn pieces of dust. I never use photo flo and I never, never touch the wet film with my fingers or a squegee and using the method described above I also never have water spots and only very rarely do I get a piece of dust imbedded in the film. Hope this helps. David |
| JAC |
Posted - 29/06/2002 : 01:59:56
Michael - You must be almost as old as I am!I was taught that trick forty years ago by an old-timer who used to print 120 negatives of horseraces WET to make the Chicago newspaper evening edition. You're right - it works great! Regards, John |
